We kicked off with a Q&A in which Kate Mangino answered our burning questions, including:
You say that our gender problem is both structural and social. What do you mean by that?
There are two different influences to inequity:
- Structural: Law and policies that create the top-down structure
- Social: People who start implementing policies and making change
While we’re waiting for the big structural changes (e.g., affordable childcare laws), people can still make a change socially with their actions.
Knowing that there are structural gender problems OUTSIDE of their relationship, partners can put aside the fact that these issues exist and focus on changes WITHIN their relationship.
Specifically, how do you think these problems impact parents, especially when they start their new parenting journey?
It’s a huge issue. Gender inequality and household imbalance becomes a bigger factor with children in the mix. First, since some aspects of child rearing are based on biology (e.g., breastmilk) and policies for non-birthing partners work against equality, it takes special attention to push back against the tendency for child rearing to become imbalanced. Adding children to the family exponentially increases what needs to be done in the household, which also comes with many gender norms of what mothers and fathers should be doing. It takes diligence to keep things equitable.
In my experience, most parents—dads especially—are outdoing the amount of work that their parents put in. Still, we see over and over that mothers in heterosexual two-parent households are overwhelmed. How can all parents unlearn the roles they've grown up with, become more equal, and be (dare I say) happier?
Dads have definitely made advances in parenting, and the days of “Leave it to Beaver” are behind us. However, societal pressures are still pervasive, and dads still take on more intermittent, less necessary tasks (e.g. mowing the lawn) as opposed to routine tasks that need more immediate attention (e.g., cooking, laundry). For equal parenting to work, dads need to lean into the understanding that it's important to make the best choices for their family and avoid falling prey to shame from outside influences.
What is the difference between an Equal Partner and a Hands-On Partner?
A hands-on partner is someone who takes a step up from stereotypical dads of the past, but falls short of being an equal partner. These partners rely more on one person carrying most of the emotional load, something Kate calls a “manager/employee” relationship. An equal partnership, on the other hand, does not involve this dynamic where one person is delegating tasks.
Equal partnership involves partners splitting the physical work AND the cognitive work, as well as intermittent tasks and routine tasks. It’s an ongoing conversation where couples may shift up or down the continuum to make their equal partnership work.
What advice would you give to expectant parents about creating equal parenting partnerships?
Understand that some tasks—such as breastfeeding—are more time-consuming and stressful than others. Therefore, mindfully portioning out responsibilities that are less stressful or time-consuming is necessary to balance out the partnership. If one partner is in charge of the breastfeeding and pumping, for example, the other can be in charge of washing all the pump parts, managing storage, and keeping track of supplies. It’s also important to have domains (laundry, dishes, etc); however, it is vital that each person knows how to do everything.
Recognize that partners need both time together with children and time alone with children so that each person learns to do everything. Otherwise, inequalities will form in the relationship.
What about maternal gatekeeping?
Maternal gatekeeping happens when moms don’t allow others (in this case, their partner) ownership in the child rearing process. They may allow their partners to help, but only if things are done the way the mother wants or expects. If partners feel that they are going to be micromanaged, it can be harder for them to step up. It’s important that moms step back and allow their partners to find their way in the child rearing process.
Historically, raising children is one area where women have authority and a voice, which can make it hard to let that small amount of power go. Even today, maternal gatekeeping can be fostered by social pressures and people around you. For instance, comments like “Oh, you let your husband do bathtime” can be construed as a societal expectation that only moms bathe kids. It’s important to counter those statements as they come up.
Who are the EP40 and how did their stories impact your book?
Equal Partners focuses on a diverse group of 40 men (of different states, countries, and races) who fit Kate’s rubric of what an equal partner is—that is, men who display positive deviance from the norm. These 40 men are from a wide variety of backgrounds rather than having similar upbringings. This is good news for families because it means that equal partnerships can be fostered and learned throughout life.
What did the EP40 tell us about raising kids? What do we need to do—specifically with boys—to raise a generation that is comfortable with gender equity?
It's important that kids see non-gendered behavior from their parents and others around them. To use Thanksgiving dinner as an example, if moms do all the cleaning up in the kitchen, young boys are going to learn that they’re not expected to help.
It’s also essential that fathers and those in a paternal role are supported in their decisions to take on an equal role in parenting. Support can help to counter detrimental social pressures and norms.
What did the EP40 tell us about motivation? Why do people like living as an equal partner? Can you tell us more about that in terms of parenting?
In a heterosexual relationship, due to gender norms, it is much less likely for dads to have as deep of an influence on a child’s life since they do not do many of the care tasks. This dynamic needs to change, and the EP40 partners have started down that road already. They see being an equal parent as imperative if they want to have a genuine relationship with their kids. They are truly involved parents due to the time they put into their relationships.
Further, the EP40 partners do not feel a need to play into stereotypical masculine roles. They are able to be themselves, experience all of their emotions, and be vulnerable without shame. So it’s important in equal parenting for both parents to be vulnerable and allow themselves to experience and express a wide range of emotions.
What about older parents who have started down the more stereotypical road of parenting? How can they modify what’s been set in motion?
Less-than-equal partnerships often include what we call a Project Manager and an Employee: Due to gender norms, women are likely to have been socialized to have a manager skill set surrounding parenting. To change and modify this behavior, it’s important to know that both partners have the capacity to take on new cognitive roles.
These patterns are often worn in like the grooves of a record, though, and it takes work to unlearn old behaviors and learn new ones. One way to do this is to start with one “manager” domain that the “employee” partner can take on. This can foster their confidence and grow their management skill set. As time goes on and the dynamic evolves, new domains are added.
Next, we turned to our coupled parents to learn more about how they foster and maintain an equal partnership. We asked them:
- Can you give us an overview of your relationship and examples of your equal parenting life in motion?
- In what ways have you actively and and mindfully worked on this equal parenting journey? Do you have meetings together? Go to workshops? Go to therapy together?
- Do you have role models who have helped you or are helping you on your journey?
- What bumps have you encountered along the way?
- Not everything works for every couple, but what tips or tricks would you say help you keep it together?
Here’s what they shared:
Getting your head around an equal partnership
- One father felt that equal parenting was important because he wanted to have a role in his kids' life beyond what fathers may traditionally have. He knew that, to achieve this, he needed to have the same knowledge as his partner and gain expertise on how to handle all of the different tasks that come with parenting.
- Both halves of one of our couples researched child rearing through parenting courses and books, which they watched, read, and discussed together. This partnership in childcare knowledge helped them acknowledge that they are starting from the same place together.
Strategies that worked
- Focus and work on keeping things equal in terms of time; every hour with the baby is accounted for. That’s the easiest way to keep things equal.
- Consider the concept of “parenting like you’re divorced.” This can include each partner having whole days off on the weekend. Whenever one parent is taking care of the baby, how things are done are none of the other parent’s business. This way, each parent has their own relationship with the baby, and micromanaging is less likely to occur.
- Allow each partner time to do what they want on their own. If time off gets unequal (e.g., one partner wants to attend a longer event or take a trip), counterbalance hours beforehand and afterwards to account for the hours taken off.
- For one couple, mom takes on a lot of cognitive load for how the baby is raised because she’s a child behaviorist, while the other partner takes on laundry, supplies, groceries, and the chores inside the house.
- When one couple was in the breastfeeding era, the mom breastfed while the non-breastfeeding partner handled everything else related to feeding (e.g., bottles, cleaning, organizing).
Tips and tricks
- Use Eve Rodsky’s Fair Play cards, a set of cards that helps you visualize the things that each partner takes on and assess how equal things are.
- Have each partner use an Excel sheet to record what they are doing and how often. Use the sheet to divvy up and assign tasks.
- Check out the Lasting app, which poses questions for both partners to answer, creating the opportunity to discuss each other’s needs and wants.
Handling rough patches
- When equal partnering isn’t working, one couple relies on communication to get back on track. The communication expert (the one more involved in chats and forums like Park Slope Parents) has to keep the other apprised of things like their child’s next development stage.
- One couple realized through couples therapy that it’s important for each of them to take care of themselves first in whatever way they need.
- One mom found it was hard for her not to take control during bedtime. To counter this, in the beginning, she would step away and leave the room. She understood her tendency to want to lead, and, when she stepped back, dad strengthened both the tools he had to do it himself and his own relationships with the kids.
- When one couple had their second child, they found that the workload changed drastically. Dad was exclusively taking care of the toddler and mom was taking care of the baby. When dad started feeling like he didn’t have a relationship with the baby because he wasn’t taking on care tasks, they re-evaluated and got back on track.
